Forum:Conquer Europa, enslave everybody... then what?
I have no idea what The Other's ultimate goals are. What's your ideas? --Corgi :That's what I can't figure out either. This is really the whole key to the plot, isn't it? Was the Other just bent on destroying everything? This makes more sense if the Other really is an extradimensional entity. I can see Lucrezia wanting to take over Europe or promote her family's legacy, but killing 43 sparky households doesn't fit with that. The only thing I can come up with that would send a woman over the edge like that? Blaming a certain Council for the death of one's child. :I do think we're going to get a good solid answer about the real Lucrezia by the time this volume is over. It might be pushed to the next one. --mnenyver 04:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC) :I don't think that the Other really is Lucrezia. That's just a red herring. Two facts::#Lucrezia's family specialized in genetics. :#The Other's first appearance was in Lucrezia's laboratory. Before the attack on the Castle began (from the inside), nobody had heard of the Other. :That leads me to think that "The Other" is actually short for "The Other Lucrezia". So perhaps her goal really is something that makes no sense for Lucrezia, but makes sense for an experiment gone amok. --NoSanninWa 04:53, 2 May 2009 (UTC) :: To take this approach, you need to figure out where the Geisterdamen fit in. They worshiped Lucrezia long before the attack on the castle, and now they transport hive engines for The Other. Two possibilities:::# The Geisterdamen have always been on the side of The Other, and The Other told them that Lucrezia would become the next host for the Other (and The Other knew that long before it was known Lucrezia would marry Bill and experiment in the castle). ::# The Geisterdamen's worship of Lucrezia (which was confusing to her parents) is yet another string in the twisted knot of the story, and the Geisterdamen were taken over by The Other after The Other took over Lucrezia. :: (Other explanations are also possible.) Of these two, I lean toward the first option, but both are complex. Argadi 13:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC) :Given the plot complexity of their previous work, I would guess the Other's plan would be "rectify an even greater injustice." --Tatter D 21:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC) ::Judging by the current direction of the plotline in Othas's Twitter, we may all get to find out. ::Reichardt von Hamming 10:54, 8 June 2009 (UTC) :I would think that the Other's goals are simple ones. Turn Earth into a source of food, or additional living space for Geisterdamen, a source of slaves, a source of emotional gratification from the screams of the Earthlings... but, basically, a stepping-stone on the way to the conquest of the whole Universe, all alternate dimensions, and all times. --Quadibloc 12:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC) :: And yet, when Othar surveys an extensive amount of Other/wasp-conquered countryside, there's nobody there. No wasps, no Geisters, no normal peasants. Where's the point? -- Corgi 18:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC) : Taking things over in a struggle to survive is universal. There are many examples of symbiotic relationships, but more of hostile relationships. If you observe a peaceful meadow long enough you will see the various types of plants, shrubs, and trees trying to force each other out. Argadi 13:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC) :: Well, yes. That doesn't explain what we're seeing so far, though, unless (as some have suggested) Othar's actually imagining this whole adventure current to this timestamp. -- Corgi 18:00, 8 June 2009 (UTC) ::: Othar currently is not flying in Canon land. I doubt the Gods will really be so cruel as to kill off Gil. The time meddling in the canonical tale is bad but Othar's gentlemanly adventures are rife with it. --Rej The Other's purpose may be just domination. The first slaver wasps were more flawed. The current ones allow townsfolk to function normally until commanded. The only thing that makes sense to me is that Lucrezia invited the other to possess her. She was enticed by a chance to increase her sparky intelligence. Then the other changed Lucrezia's purpose to fit in with her/it's own plans. The loose end to all this is the timing. Lucrezia was probably herself at the time she sent Klaus away. Also probably herself at the time of the conception of her children. Bill might have noticed otherwise. Or not. She clearly was not herself at the time of the castles destruction. And the quick onset of the "Other War" suggests that there must have been some preparation. The hive engines are an extension of Lucrezia's design ability. They were plentiful during the war. They don't look like they can be mass produced over night. Now I wonder if looking for finely crafted seams is the right thing to do for Girl Genius. The story is written by folks who love a good joke rather than a tight plot. So plot details may be loosely assembled with Minmoth paste rather than carefully assembled with left-handed luring wrenches. Levity is what keeps airships afloat. All else is ballast. --Rej ¤¤? 19:29, 9 June 2009 (UTC) :::: Othar currently is not flying in Canon land. annoyed look here So you know more than Phil Foglio? He said it is canon. ::::: Ok. I withdraw my statement. Still canon with time meddlers, how much faith can one have? --Rej. :::: The story is written by folks who love a good joke rather than a tight plot. The story is written by people who spent 10 years on outlining it before they drew the first page. ::::: That not withstanding I hold by what I said. I also stand happy to be proved wrong. There is a difference between a complete plot and a tight one. Knowing where the story is going is what you get from planning. Knowing how it gets there and having the pieces fit neatly together are different things. --Rej ¤¤? 03:48, 10 June 2009 (UTC) :::: At least I can agree with what you said about the hive engines. -- Corgi 00:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC) :::::Cool. Can you figure out anything from that? --Rej :::::: Nope. I'm hoping we'll get some clues from Othar's journal soon. ::::::: Pardon me for saying so, but I think that hope is foolish, Corgi. Othar's twitter was originally totally off the cuff, and even if it's more coherent now (frankly, I haven't been following it), it is not part of the plot they spent all those years developing. Not to harp, but just because it's canon doesn't mean that it actually happened. In any case, I would think anything that were to be revealed would have to be second-guessed practically to oblivion. ⚙Zarchne 01:04, 11 June 2009 (UTC) :::::: All conquering involves control of some desired resource. The American Civil war was land and economics; the Crusades were land and religious fervor (trespassing and soaking tourists); the Wellsian Martian invasion was about... well, food, I think. If everybody's dead or a revenant, there's no opposition; no farming or mining unless orders are given at some point; there doesn't seem to be a real need for land-as-in-acreage. We're still missing some large piece. -- Corgi 04:23, 10 June 2009 (UTC) :::::::# Obtain a resource. As Corgi points out, most outside-world wars are wars of conquest bent on obtaining something (e.g., land, slaves, a key to greater power). :::::::# Eliminate a threat. Perhaps the Other fears sparks in general or the Holy Child in particular. Perhaps it has foreknowledge of its own doom and is acting to prevent that. :::::::# Destruction for destruction's sake. Rarely seen in the outside world, such irrational motivations can be behind fictional plots. :::::::Corgi's right, we don't know why the Other appeared and went to war. --DryBrook 18:39, 10 June 2009 (UTC) : I suspect everyone is chasing each other's (no pun intended) tail, so to speak. The combination of time travel and dimension hoping has led to an endless and self perpetuating cycle with no real beginning, no real end and no comprehensible goals. I think at least one of the Lucrezia impersonated the Gaister god (in desperation to save herself and the unborn Agatha following the attack on the castle), another Lucrezia impersonated the Lucrezia that impersonated the Gaister god (simply to exploit the cult and its power). I think they are all the Other. -Grumpy Celt 23:53, 10 June 2009 (UTC) :: That's more or less what I understand the term "Other" to imply. I don't think there are multiple Lucrezias, but I do expect your first sentence to turn out to be the case, and your second sentence describes a quite probable mechanism. ⚙Zarchne 00:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC) :::My interpretation of the sequence of events is like this... :::1. Lucrezia Prime semi-reforms, drug's Klaus, mails him postage due to the Skifandian city, marries Bill, gives birth to her son and is pregnant with Agatha. :::2. The attack on the castle comes. I don't think Lucrezia Prime did this. In a semi-panic she escapes into another dimension she already knew about, the home to the Gaisters. She impersonates their deity to get the society of warrior women to protect her child from whatever the hell is attacking her. Then Lucrezia Prime leaves to find what is responsible. :::3. Alternate Lucrezia shows up and takes command of the situation. I don't know the relationship between the Lucrezia Prime and Alternate Lucrezia works, except I don't think they are the exact same person. Alternate Lucrezia might be an evil clone of Lucrezia Prime, a copy from that machine pre-dating Lucrezia Prime's semi-reform, a Lucrezia from another dimension or something else. But Alternate Lucrezia responds to situations vastly differently than Lucrezia Prime, judging by that flash back. :::4. Alternate Lucrezia leads the Gaisterdamen to Europa and a series of rampages. This doesn't work out so well, as Alternate Lucrezia's physical form is destroyed, Barry gets Agatha back from the Gaisterdamen and Klaus comes back. :::5. Agatha eventually ends up time traveling. Lucrezia Prime also time traveled. Alternate Lucrezia might. One of them is actually responsible for the attack on the castle, which set so much of this in motion in the first place. Their actions in dimension hoping and time traveling lead the Gasters to think they are a single goddess. Which at least two of them impersonate later. -Grumpy Celt 01:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC) :::: shrug I think I know who was immediately responsible for the destructive force that constituted the "attack" on Castle H, and I don't think it was an extradimensional or extraterrestrial being, nor Lucrezia. On the other hand, I think a single personality (Lucrezia or a goddess or a melding of the two or whatever; not the CH "attacker") was responsible for Lucrezia's turning to the light side (a ruse), sending Klaus to (presumably) Skifander, building Von Pinn, and, well, marrying and bearing children to Bill Heterodyne; presumably that personality also survived the "attack" and was responsible for the destruction of the great houses. ⚙Zarchne 20:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC) ::::: Who do you think blew up the castle, and why did they do it? -Grumpy Celt 00:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC) :::::: WAG: One possibility is that Agatha portalled in to prevent the "attack" and her portal set off the detonation. Perhaps Agatha wanted to save Klaus Barry or her mom or perhaps she learned that The Other was created that night. --DryBrook 17:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC) The other Other, Othar Agatha's mom was the Other. Responsible for the slaver wasp engine's, the marshalling of the Geisterdamen to fight. The premise of this forum though is what's the point? What was motivating her? The description of the Other war sounds very little like a war of domination. It sounds strictly like one of destruction. I have a hard time reconciling that with a person who spent most of her youth in the role of fertility goddess to cult of white skinned ladies. The destruction of all sparks is the goal of only one individual I have met so far, Othar. How did his goal get caught up with the Other war? How did it become the seeming goal of the Other war? In truth I find Othar to be much too much the bon vivant to have a deep seated belief in his adherence to his stated goal. Yet I am not the Foglio's and the way they have set things up seems to suggest that he has something if not everything to do with this. His stated goal matches perfectly the intentions of the other war. His first name is similar except for a vowel. The Foglio's have often used the names as a short hand for the characters role. So I read the story while being aware of this. I am still very very puzzled. --Rej ¤¤? 04:13, January 7, 2010 (UTC) Makes no sense, so far... Well, obviously we don't have all the information to undertand The Other yet. But it is very unclear what did The Other wanted. I mean, lets check our options: 1- The Other is Lucrezia Prime (currently the most obvious option). What were her goals? During the time she posessed Agatha we have seen her behaving very humanly. Including having sexual desires, being angry, confused, scared, and all in all not very much "big great villian" type, and she didn't show any sort of special emotions tward sparks or royalty...Both those things are major things about The Other. 2- The Other is Lucrezia from the future. Will explian a few things, yes, but will still not explain the war. Lucrezia is smart, she doesn't seem to be that stupid to go back to the past and try to change it, as it is obviously doomed to fail. Also, this create a paradox, as it is then unclear how was the technology for things like the Wasp Engines invented? She learned the secrets from herself? makes no sense. 3- The Other is Othar from the future. Ok, so on some ways it makes sense (desire to kill all sparks, stupid enough to try and change the past), However, so far it seemd as if Othar is not much of a spark himself. I mean, sure, we get told that he is one, but we never actually seen him build anything. Are we to believe that he built things like the Wasps Engines? Unlikely. 4- The Other is Klaus From the future. Actually I like this option the best, however it would still make no sense, Klaus wouldn't try something as futile as that. He is way too smart for it. So, we are left to understand that The Other is someone we have yet to know about. I personally like to entertain the thought that it is actually some sort of alternate version of Bill Heterodyne, but who knows...really --87.69.65.218 04:45, January 27, 2010 (UTC)